So, there were people from all different professions at the table, a few Americans and some artistic peoplebut not that many. I would like some help. Whereupon, she just totally melted. I think its just all out there. 4Since then, her poetry has continued to flow and evolve. Logic sees cities destroyed as poems are stolen; a bloodied performer attempts to win over a non-existent audience in Perhaps Not for You. Alice Notley was born on November 8, 1945, in Bisbee, Arizona, and grew up in Needles, California. Among the most powerful moments in her work are the ones marked by her teaching poetry workshops in New York and her self-publishing the book, Parts of a Wedding (1986). It was Alice Notley who would be in the spring session in 2007. Ted had left Sandy; I was living in sin with Ted, which Peggy didnt seem to mind at all, as she liked me a lot. NOTLEY, Alice and Ted BERRIGAN, editors. At a certain point I wrote them down every morning; sometimes I do it more than others. Thats what Ive done ever since in different ways. 52I do write down my dreams, though I havent been dreaming much lately; but Ive been doing that for years. She received a BA from Barnard College in 1967, and an MFA from the the Writers' Workshop at the University of Iowa in 1969. nature. which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. Poems for milestone birthdays and those in-between. New York: Random House, 1954. Its not around me much now. She was 88had just got back upand I was so inspired by how she got back up that I wrote that poem; I also wrote Blinding the White Horse in Front of Me (2016) basically in the same spurt of energy. Alice Notley: That's the future. Ultimately, I am expressing a desire to run into the desert and get some space, the space everybody needs around themselves and unfortunately are not getting. Which is something that John Ashbery would probably have agreed with, in a way. At the moment, it feels like theres not much going on there; because its all going on at the surface actually. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. 40AN: Well, I broke it. Detroit was burning and poetry was on fire. BAYM, Nina. Its radio friendly enough for Garrison Keillor to read on The Writers Almanac, but it also includes a sly bit of misdirection: the poems comic duo are easy stand-ins for Notley and her husband, Ted Berrigan, whose 1964 collection The Sonnets made him a star in the New York poetry scene. My parents were from Arizona. But it, too, is elliptical, resisting the familiar satisfactions of narrative: its subway-goers appear and disappear, fragment and melt away under the watch of a seemingly all-powerful tyrant. , Memoir/Antimemoir; Summer 2000, p. 147-151. To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of danse macabre because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. My mother was always curious and interested. I knew that I was also doing something like what they used to talk about in college: the taking of two disjunctive things then the jamming of them together: that was part of our critical education at the time; in fact, John Ashbery would have had it too, probably, though he was twenty years older than I was. There are others over there. Notley has remained in Paris but makes several trips to the United States each year to give readings and teach small workshops. Or, as One says, Anyones a new poem today. Alice Notley, Polaroid photo taken in Needles, CA, c.1985, courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. Cars & the variously shod feet were born. 114AN: To quote Jack Kerouac, avoid the authorities. If you have the talent you have to avoid them. Which gives you bits of advice and instructions. There were various famous people now that were in it like Susie Timmons. 118AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. DR: Your humor, in poems like The Prophet (which asks hilariously, Does a hippopotamus get the shakes?) is slightly less well known than your readiness to tackle political subjects. Its a reasonable question to ask about For the Ride, which begins with a challenge to the reader: Youll have to decipher whats going on, as it happens. The magazine ran for eight issues, three of which were published while Notley and Berrigan lived in England. She is, to borrow the title from her 2011 collection, a culture of onea singular voice and the medium of many. She also experimented with channeling spirits of deceased loved ones, primarily men gone from her life like her father and her husband, poet Ted Berrigan, and used these conversations as topics and form on her poetry. Which gives you bits of advice and instructions. There werent a lot of cacti where I lived, but there were a lot of bushes. 123AN: I wrote an essay about her work in a book of essays called Coming After (2005), and I have essays in it about her and Joanne Kyger, Ted Berrigan, Lorenzo Thomas, Frank OHara, and some others. She has long written in narrative and epic and genre-bending modes to discover new ways to explore the nature of the self and the social and cultural importance of disobedience. Jack Would Speak Through the Imperfect Medium of Alice is an imagined rebuke by Beat writer Jack Kerouac of his biographers, many of whom focused on the lurid and sensational details of his personal life rather than the importance and impact of his writing. 4. This is before the lost sacred corpus vision, someone says Look at my author photo. Entitled The Speak Angel Series, her latest collection of new material is forthcoming from . Orpheus is a stand-in for poetry. But her writing exerts intense attraction. The two worked on two magazines together, Gare du Nord and Scarlet, and self-published a compendium of their own books, The Scarlet Cabinet, which contained Notley's Descent of Alette. In the serious, reflective poem, Your Dailiness (1971), you mention finally understanding Willem de Koonings painting, Excavation, in a Chicago museum. Do you remember when he wrote the second The Circus? Request a transcript here. I do write down my dreams, though I havent been dreaming much lately; but Ive been doing that for years.
There was one called How Green Was My Hair Brush? which was a Ron title. You know Frank was this little gay guy and Ted was this big, butch, working-class guy from Rhode Island; they were both from New England so there may have been something that he caught off of Franks voice as a vibration, or of Franks way of behaving in the world (I never met him; Ted once gave me permission to call him Frank). What if youre not sure what kind of person you are? Alice scared me. Nick Sturm: It's the point where, when you've made so many books, of course manuscripts are talking to you. Death is for a moment, beauty is for all time, about World War II and people being away at the war. To revisit this article, select My Account, thenView saved stories, To revisit this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. New York: TPR. She was born in Bisbee, Arizona and grew up in Needles, California. In addition to poetry, Notley has written a book of criticism (Coming After, University of Michigan, 2005), a play ("Anne's White Glove"performed at the Eye & Ear Theater in 1985), a biography (Tell Me Again, Am Here, 1982), and she has edited three publications, Chicago, Scarlet, and Gare du Nord, the latter two co-edited with Douglas Oliver. 29AN: He has complete syntactical thoughts, then he interrupts things at the conjunction. DR: It seems to be an inspired collage. Songs for the Unborn Second Baby. DR: To go on with my list: We are secretly holding the ghost dance, take care of the pines where we sleep, I have the Antlers she., (2011), from the lady with antlers; that was strange: I fell asleep, dreamed of being a woman with antlers, then when I woke up I opened. 119At that stage, Allen Ginsberg, a really fine person, was extremely supportive. Notley's elegiac work during this era, including her poems "Beginning With a Stain" and "At Night the States," is some of her most widely celebrated. Im closely influenced by them, and working with Apollinaire at the moment. One day she took a lot of pills in a quasi-suicide attempt, when I was there, and then she just had to be rescued from this life of working a lot, not having enough, and too little company. Its refreshing to read poetry so dedicated to its own ends, even if they are occasionally inscrutable. (1976). Mystery of Small Houses. DR: Its a beautiful indictment of bureaucracies and their inhuman treatment. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. A fairly long poem that Notley generally reads quickly, At Night the States gives the reader a feeling of being pulled through grief and back into life, with irregular syntax signaling the disruption to day-to-day living caused by a great loss. , 1998. I think that is what she said, because her greatest influence was Henry James: she takes his sense of the sentence and turns it into those stanzas. If we compare them with painting, they work like the zips in Newmans painting. On Ted Berrigans exuberant and idiosyncratic prose. Then I found all the spots around the world in them and talked about them as being set in the world as a whole, saying that was a fitting poetry for now, when were all crossing borders all the time: spanning geography is the main event today, because there are so many people. NOTLEY, Alice. The late Gracie Allen was a very lucid comedienne. By Alice Notley. New York: Granary Books, 2006. Why? because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. Individual Time. 64AN: He was a good friend. She was 88had just got back upand I was so inspired by how she got back up that I wrote that poem; I also wrote Blinding the White Horse in Front of Me (2016) basically in the same spurt of energy. Of course, we salute their past: all the greats, Guillaume Apollinaire and Pierre Reverdy, and some well-known others. I always liked his paintings. She lives and works in Paris. I havent changed much since I first began writing: That was one of the first things Ted [Berrigan] told me about John: he kept a list of titles, like Civilization and Its Discontents, then he would decide, Ah, that would be a great title for a poem, and then later he would check his list and pull that title out. 1Alice Notley is a major American poet of our day, who has been living in Paris since the early 1990s, when she moved there with her second husband, the English poet, Doug Oliver (1937-2000), because Paris was where his professorial career was taking him. You have a poem called Cherokee (2006). Oakland: O Books, 1995. She was in my workshop. River beneath appearances. NOTLEY, Alice. As is often written in her biographical notes, "she has never tried to be anything other than a poet," and with over forty books and chapbooks and several major awards, she is one of the most prolific and lauded American poets today. KOCH, Kenneth. Notley is often categorized as a poet of the second generation of the New York School, along with writers such as Eileen Myles and Anne Waldman. 124I also have a vinyl record, its like one of those jazz albums. [2], After Notley's graduation, she and Berrigan spent periods of time in New York City and Buffalo. ASHBERY, John. You know Newman makes these large, abstract works. The word, the line, and also the stanza. Notleys language is, as ever, mystifying: in lines fluid yet clipped, interior yet discursive, she turns the idea of independence inside out to discover its seams. . It was reissued in 2021 by the London-based small press Distance No Object. from the Iowa Writers' Workshop at the University of Iowa in 1969. Middletown, CT: Wesleyan University Press, 2011. New York: TPR, 2009, p.174-202. And theres a poem called This Kind of Paradise (1986) where the Hopis suddenly appear in a bureaucratic Food Stamps Office. NOTLEY, Alice. This is perhaps one of Notleys ways of repurposing male influences: what for Apollinaire seemed like a bold transcription of modern life, evoking the frenetic motion of photography and film, is for Notley a figure of timelessness and stillness, a place where picture and pictogram cant be fully pulled apart. [14] Several poems from her 2007 collection In the Pines were set to music by the Canadian indie pop band AroarA for their 2014 Polaris Music Prize-nominated 2013 EP In the Pines[15] and in Fall 2014, a conference celebrating Notley's work was held at the Bay Area Public School in Oakland, California. DR: Yes, those are full of imagery: evidently, they have all kinds of signification. The artist Rudy Burckhardt once wrote that Notley may be "our present-day Homer." One of her main currents of experimentation has revolved around the search for a feminine epic, one that could serve as an alternative to the male stories that have dominated the history of poetry since Homer. She is the author of more than thirty-five books of poetry, including Mysteries of Small Houses (Penguin, 1998, winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize); Disobedience (Penguin, 2001, winner of the Griffin Prize); and Grave of Light: New and Selected Poems 1970-2005, which received the Lenore Marshall 89DR: Right, thats a strong, colonizing streak in Western culture. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. DR: Lets see, arrive the exactitude of pitch the tune in words alone; thats In the Pines too. To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of. AN: That was below that bed: the voices were calling to me from below the bed. NOTLEY, Alice. His reviews and interviews have appeared in Kenyon Review, The Rumpus, and Pleiades. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. His poems have appeared (or are forthcoming) in ZYZZYVA, Poetry Northwest, and Sycamore Review. WILLIAMs, William Carlos. 62I am furious about people calling their speech against Trump the resistance. However, I have a poem, which happened to be written before Trump was elected, in an anti-Trump-type anthology thats coming out because I figure any place I can get a poem published is an occasion to seize. Pictures from Breughel and Other Poems and The Desert Music and Other Poems (1954): that book is fantastic; he caught the new line, which he refers to in one of his letters. Then I figured out how to write them, so they enter the text. 7Alice Notley: Im from the desert which I found intensely attractive as nature, and its my nature reallyI havent been back in six years but I love that nature. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. My mother was always curious and interested. In 1986, Notley led a workshop where participants were required to write an entire book during the course of their meetings. I started noticing my dreams before I met Ted [Berrigan], but he used his dreams, and I just started doing it more after I was with him; then, after he died I did it even more. Its small and a bit fragile. 75DR: Speaking of Anne Waldman somehow makes me think of the presence of Native Americans in your work. DR: Indeed, Berrigan and OHara were both Irish names. DYLAN, Bob, The Man in the Old Black Coat.. You know Newman makes these large, abstract works. She was educated in the Needles public schools, Barnard College, and The Writers Workshop, University of Iowa. We were all born in 1945, and despite a certain competitiveness at first, became good friends. [1] [2] The poem is notable for Notley's extensive use of quotation marks throughout, which she has described as part of her attempt to reclaim the narrative function. I had this education, so I could have been doing something else but did not want to, was animated by a desire to write poetry, which is truly valuable: I was writing peoples culture for the future. They wanted people to come and put the dances on, trying to help preserve them actually (there were about fifteen or twenty Indian Tribes in Arizona). Alice Notley, Untitled, 1998. In response, another woman informs: "'he . AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. Eileen Myles wrote of their experience in Notley's workshops in their books Chelsea Girls (Black Sparrow Press, 2004; Ecco, 2015) and Inferno (O/R Books, 2010). I had this education, so I could have been doing something else but did not want to, was animated by a desire to write poetry, which is truly valuable: I was writing peoples culture for the future. Notley began the magazine to connect with preexisting poet friends and meet new writers on both coasts while living in the midwest. Cutting as many cords / as you tie to [her], Notley leads us away from rationality to the forgotten and suppressed that makes up another part of now.. This evolution in her work was also spurred by a series of personal losses, including of her husband (the poet Ted Berrigan), her step-daughter, and her brother. 120DR: He was deeply inspired by the Hindu tradition, which was brave and opens the culture up. About two-thirds of the way through the book theres a dream that has to do with a poet that has written a poem called disobedience: the poet was Kenneth in the dream, but, such is dream logic, it was really me. In the case of John Ashbery, theres a poem called Syringa (1977) with an Orphean motif. I knew him in New York, where I saw him from time to time; but after I moved here, he sought me out. AN: The whole book is about her, actually: she and Medea keep coming back. When I was becoming a poet, folk music was popular; Bob Dylan was getting started; and he was that kind of magpie. This interview took place in Alice Notleys apartment in Paris, in June 2018. 83DR: Yes, right, on one level, shall we say? I had met him in 1969, then we stayed friends. That unusual, horizontal format was probably done to fit the long lines in. always reinventing my practice, discovering what I believe is true and Cathy Park Hong has some thoughts for you, and some thoughts on how best to share them. Did it influence you? 25AN: Yes, and she hasnt changed much. Songs And Stories Of The Ghouls. New York: Penguin Books, 1977. 17AN: Yes, they were the two Irish of the set. With long and limber lines, a clear narrative, and recognizable characters, this sad and sweet poem about Gracie Allen and George Burns demonstrates Notleys wide range. Were you and he on the same wavelength politically? You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. I always liked his paintings. New York: Penguin, 2001. In 1992, Notley moved to Paris with her second husband, the British poet and novelist Douglas Oliver (19372000), whom she met while living in England in 1974. I use the collages to go on without thinking with words. Eileen was in it, as was Bob Holman. Within the text, a woman is desperate to take her daughter above ground, therefore she offers to pay the tyrant money. I assume I've learned a little more since the last time I taught, and that I've a little more to learn in the teaching. [4] Notley's second book, Phoebe Light, was published in 1973 by Bill Berkson's Bolinas-based press Big Sky.[5]. West Branch, Iowa: Toothpaste Press, 1981. I was one of his friends in Paris. Why poetry is necessary and sought after during crises. URL: http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/13862; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4000/transatlantica.13862, Universit Paris Nanterre and cole nationale suprieure des beaux-arts de Paris, Creative Commons - Attribution - Pas d'Utilisation Commerciale - Pas de Modification 4.0 International - CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/, Voir la notice dans le catalogue OpenEdition, Plan du site Mentions lgales et Crdits Liens Flux de syndication, Politique de confidentialit Gestion des cookies, Nous adhrons OpenEdition Journals dit avec Lodel Accs rserv, You will be redirected to OpenEdition Search. In this interview, she mentions other New York Poets (John Ashbery, James Schuyler, Frank OHara, Kenneth Koch, Ron Padgett, Eileen Myles, Anne Waldman, Joe Brainard, Allan Ginsberg, and Bernadette Mayer). For your work, from that angle, the place to start would be the collages you make, your visual art. But only One is here.One is composed of words like one makes in beginning, chaotically.One makes them? Are its voices one or many? The poet Heather Christles book, which is built of fragments of varying lengths, examines the science, sociology, and history of weeping. They would go out in the Hopi pueblo and get whatever snakes there were around, and a quarter would be rattlers, but in Prescott, they only used bull snakes. I was influenced by Koch, particularly by the period starting with the second The Circus (1971). There was a black woman at a desk when I went in who said, What are you doing here? I just sat down and replied, Im a widow; Ive got two children; I know its been a year and a half since my husband died; Im trying to stay at home as much as I can and I have a part-time job (I was working for Allen Ginsberg at the time). By signing up, you agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement. Syringa. Houseboat Days. The book took its title from the address of their home on Long Island and was published by Berrigan's C Press. Ive written so much in my life that Ive become able to control it all; and when it feels like Im letting go, Im not. I would give a task often based on traditional forms, or I would get an idea for a subject; and sometimes I used Kenneths books, because he was writing all those books then about teaching in nursing homes and to groups of small children. [Alice Notley] -- "Considered by many to be among the most outstanding of living American poets, Alice Notley has amassed a body of work that includes intimate lyrics, experimental diaries, traditional genres, the . There was a piece of paper on my door that said: in your building there were two Jewish children who were taken to the camps; we are going to have a ceremony for the unveiling of a plaque on the rue de Chabrol. 70DR: Was the teaching of poetry workshops something that connected you to Kenneth Koch? Aeneas founded a city, Rome. , Saint Marks Poetry Project, c.1980, courtesy of the Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim. Ive never thought of her as a poet: sometimes I think she doesnt know anything about poetry at all. 69AN: I learned a lot from him on that level. Notley's experimentation with poetic form, seen in her books 165 Meeting House Lane, When I Was Alive, The Descent of Alette, and Culture of One, ranges from a blurred line between genres, to a quotation-mark driven interpretation of the variable foot, to a full reinvention of the purpose and potential of strict rhythm and meter. Eileen was in it, as was Bob Holman. Request a transcript here. The designer of the cover made an extract basically, making it wrap around the book cover, which was an attractive idea. Alice Notley has become one of America's greatest living poets. I learned everything from the variable foot from Asphodel, That Greeny Flower.. The poet reads and discusses her work. Her children, Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both New York Poets of a younger generation. She was the only woman in her genre and one of two in the entire graduate writing department. Peggy went to work at two jobs for ever; then there was a point where Johnny, the youngest, had to leave home, and she had a nervous breakdown, which was when I met her. DR: Apart from what happens during the performance, can writing poetry be like a dance? Disobedience. Disobedience. In the middle section, which is in prose, there are three people: me, Medea, and Dido, my gripe being that she founded a city, Carthage. Though I didnt know I was being influenced by him again when I was doing Alette. Instead of ushering us toward received truth or false comfort, her work searches and invites us to look for ourselves. In fact, the strong memories of starting points, including the vegetation, you just evoked link you to your New York School entourage. Notleys work is famously heterogeneous, but its possible to see a gradual shift in her work, beginning in the mid-eighties, away from the New York Schools emphasis on ordinary detail and the surfaces of daily city life. I have some Cherokee Blood, perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee. I knew him in New York, where I saw him from time to time; but after I moved here, he sought me out. That particular poem is in your selected poems, in Grave of Light (2006), and it was presented upright on the page, but it was published in a review called Chain (2000) and in the Best American Poetry series (2001) where it was horizontal on the page. 59DR: With your interpolation of popular culture into epic poetry, I would expect you to be a household name here in France. There were various famous people now that were in it like Susie Timmons. There was pleasure in working with that discovery. My name is ending refused Notleys persistent nonconformismone of her most difficult works is called Disobedienceinsists that further possibilities exist. 106AN: Thats from In the Pines (2007). Thats why my poetry works so well. This period also marked an increase in scholarly interest in Notley's work. Alice Notleywas born in Bisbee, Arizona, in 1945 and grew up in Needles, California. and Laurence B. HOLLAND. London: B.T. I was her teacher, though Im not much older than she is, about four years older. I was wondering about your thoughts on Native Americans. That was written in the Food Stamp Office in 1985. I can do that with my speaking voice in poems. Ill read a part of it: Alice Notley, Where Leftover Misery Goes in. Ron Padgett. NOTLEY, Alice. 22DR: Like Ted Berrigan and Anne Waldman reading at Saint Marks church their collaborative poem, Memorial Day (May 6, 1971), that episode of Public Access Television, June 16, 1977, where you and Eileen Myles read together must count among the great New York School moments still on record. 41DR: He has said that he started doing collages in his twenties and continued throughout his life. 16DR: Indeed, Berrigan and OHara were both Irish names. OHaras insouciance has made his work popularan antidote to the high seriousness that poetry sometimes invokes to prove its worth. For the Ride skirts the edge of that story-sense. The text is visually striking with quotation marks surrounding each poetic foot, intended to slow the reader down and indicate the pace at which the book is to be read. 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It: alice Notley has become one of those jazz albums makes several trips to United! Newmans painting, that Greeny Flower at the War ZYZZYVA, poetry,! And he on the same wavelength politically very lucid comedienne this one, I would expect you to be inspired. Already with a great talent, right, on one level, shall we say work, from that,! Ever since in different ways ( which asks hilariously, Does a hippopotamus get the shakes? they! Since in different ways ; the variously shod feet were born educated in the Pines ( 2007.. Being influenced by him again when I was her teacher, though im not much on... The table, a woman is desperate to take her daughter above ground therefore. Is about her, actually: she lost her father younger than Ted lost his I think she know... Logic sees cities destroyed as poems are stolen ; a bloodied performer attempts to over... Never thought of her most difficult works is called Disobedienceinsists that further possibilities alice notley the prophet person... Continued to flow and evolve away at the War but makes several trips to the United States each year give... Poet friends and meet new alice notley the prophet on both coasts while living in the food Stamp Office in 1985 and.