Heres a link to Gorden Hurgenburgers 1992 paper that looks at several approaches to 1 Timothy 2:8-15 published in JETS 35.3 (September 1992) 341-360. Marg, thank you very much for another thoughtful article. These things seem to be your main concern, but they are not mine. https://margmowczko.com/household-codes-power-not-gender/, I have not read an adequate explanation from complementarians about your conclusions. SubscribeStart your Register subscription today. Pronunciation: Ta Matia Su Einai Poli Omorf. I need to. How Can I Learn Greek Language: For Holiday & Travel Phrases, Words in Greek: Learn the Correct Meaning & Its Translation, Learn the correct meaning of words in the Greek language, Learn The Correct Meaning Of These Popular Greek Words, How To Learn Vocabulary In Greek The Correct Way, English Words In Greek: What The Correct Meaning Can Teach You, Simple Words In Greek: With English Translation, Learn Greek Numbers 1-10: In Just 5 Minutes, 1000 Most Common Greek Words: With English Translation, Good Morning, Night, Evening & Day In Greek Language, Ancient Greek Vocabulary List: From Old Language, Greek Word For Powerful & Strong Woman: Express Personality, Greek Numbers 1-100: This Chart Have All Words, Days Of The Week In Greek Pronunciation: Audio, Greek Prefixes Numbers 1-20: Learn Numerals Quickly, International Greek language Day 2023: Big News, How Many Letters In The Greek Alphabet 2023. What do you think about this suggestion of 1 tim 2:12-15. Here's a list of translations. Required fields are marked *. Now, if you are dating or in a relationship with someone Greek, or spending a vacation in Greece these words will definitely come in handy! Men [andres] of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know" [Acts 2:22]. Peter uses it to address the high priest's servant girl (Luke 22:57). In fact, they were used much the way we would use the terms "sir" and "ma'am.". Copy. Fun fact: The Greek word for "baby", , comes from the exact same word. I think the best explanation of 1 Timothy 2:13-14 is that it is a correction of a teaching which says that Eve was created first and that Adam was deceived. It is not general teaching, it is specific teaching addressing specific problems. The word appears for the first time in the New Testament in Matthew 5:32.. . The Greek word anthropos is commonly translated "man," but it isn't fully gender-specific. You can go for three of your favorite gods - Achilles, Medusa, Apollo, Aphrodite - you name it! Like you, I believe Paul was speaking about a specific couple in the Ephesian Church. ), a compound of wif "woman" (see wife) + man "human being" (in Old English used in reference to both sexes; see man (n.)). In Greek mythology Doris was a sea nymph, one of the many children of Oceanus and Tethys. Right. Whatever the case may be, the legend of the Amazon women continues to fascinate people from all over the world. Jimmy Akin Jimmy was born in Texas and grew up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ. It was used generically for "the human race, mankind" by c. 1200. I appreciate the way you make this complex passage more clear. was "taken out of man" ( Genesis 2:23), and therefore the man has the preeminence."The head of the woman is the man;" but yet honour is to be shown to the wife, "as unto the weaker vessel" ( 1 Corinthians 11:3 1 Corinthians 11:8 1 Corinthians 11:9; 1 Peter 3:7).Several women are mentioned in Scripture as having been endowed with prophetic gifts, as Miriam ( Exodus 15:20), Deborah . Period. In this case, ("gyn") is the nominative case of the word that translates as "wife" or "woman" in the singular. Also authentein in 1 Timothy 2:12 does not mean to have authority in a usual or healthy sense. She is known as the goddess of marriage (even though she put up with Zeus' many infidelities) and as a protector. Also, the woman is teaching things that are incorrect, things that Paul corrects in 1 Timothy 2:13-14, but it doesnt mean that she herself was any more deceived than other people who have believed, taught, and acted on incorrect and false ideas. But Peter said, Man [anthrope], I do not know what you are saying. And immediately, while he was still speaking, the cock crowed [Luke 22:60]. --a. of a betrothed woman. For Gamisou, is it pronounced 'Gamisoo' or 'Gamiso'. I am unconvinced and I think the approach is dependent on treating every word, phrase, and sentence in the Bible as being so inspired by Almighty God to be eternally binding and applicable. However, in this section, we'll refer to the most popular . My hour has not yet come.. acrimonious. 1:20; 2 Tim. and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Universal sense of the word remains in mankind and manslaughter. [Greek]: Caring ADONI (Greek: ): Feminine form of Greek Adonis, meaning "she who fights dragons." ADRASTEIA (Greek: ): Feminine form of Greek Adrastos, meaning "he who stands his ground," in other words "courageous." AGATHE (Greek: ): Original Greek form of English Agatha, derived from the Greek word agathos, meaning "good." AGAUE (Greek . These so-called Amazon women are said to be expert archers and skilled in hand-to-hand combat. Its very helpful Even when the titan Prometheus created the human species, he only did so by placing males . English sometimes does the same thing by putting the word "O" in front of something. Prayers for the new book. Copyright 2023 EWTN News, Inc. All rights reserved. If you knew me, you would be assured that I have no desire to usurp anyones authority. Compare Dutch vrouwmens "wife," literally "woman-man." The pronunciation of the singular altered in Middle English by the rounding influence of -w-; the plural retains the original vowel. Please write on the comment box below if you found this article helpful. So we have "man" (anthrope) being used as a form of address without it being disrespectful. Jesus uses it to address the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:21). suffering from abulia. She came into being at a period when the earth was dominated by immortal beings like the Gods and Titans. Dialects other than Attic are not well attested. 9.1", "denarius") All Search Options [view abbreviations]. Your email address will not be published. I figured you might have used a dictionary or lexicon that only has the lexical form of the noun for woman, rather than all the different forms of the word, such as singular forms in the oblique cases and plural forms in all cases. ~ There is a lengthy period of time between when 1 Timothy was written and when surviving Gnostic texts were written. Matthew 5:32 (NASB) This is not to say that we cant gain understanding or insight from his writings, but I keep thinking, if it were truly a mandate from God, if there is something inherently wrong with all women that makes us unacceptable in a position over a man, then Paul would have made it absolutely clear that God didnt want women teaching or being in authority over men. Thanks. That is, I think the no/t (ouk) is in the wrong place: Renew or manage your subscription here. 1:20). Compare Dutch vrouwmens "wife," literally "woman-man." This verse is an enigma because if Paul was referencing the created order as the divine set-up, then why the need to bring up Eves deception and Adam was not? Amongst the Greek warriors in the Greek War of Independence, there were also women, such as Laskarina Bouboulina. This is really helpful. but Eve being decieved fell into transgression Alcmene. She who belongs to a herd. Thank you for reading! Peter doesnt actually say that a wife is not permitted to teach her husband. When it comes to religious terms, there are often many different interpretations of what they mean. Some once taught the truth (ala 1 Tim 2:11) may do the right thing and some may not; of course, the hope is that all do the right thing, but Paul cannot assume that or somehow invoke a group decision when it is each persons individual decision. Kamaki - Flirt (er) Kamaki is one of the more unique Greek slang words. But I can see that this theory seems to fit best in your understanding. I am so glad I found your website. But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith. 5, and 3 times in 1 Peter 3:1-6. In other words: "What does that have to do with us?". For centuries, stories have been told of a race of fierce women warriors who live deep in the heart of the Amazon jungle. : The Amazons were a nation of fierce women warriors who burned off the right breast in order to use a bow and arrow more effectively. The CEB translation reflects this interpretation. But he doesnt say that, he says I do not permit. How do complementarians handle these logical conclusions of their interpretations? (I am fairly certain the ministry had nothing to do with food.) I mention this here. Really, is having a woman who is completely devoted to God and wants to lead others to Christ, in a teaching position over a man a bad thing? Od. Some see the mention of widows and elders in chapter 5 as a continuation of Pauls teaching on overseers and male and female deacons in chapter 3, with Pauls warning about false teachers and personal advice to Timothy in between in chapter 4. Therefore you have no excuse, O man [anthrope], whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things [Rom. This is why mechanical translations don't work for the final copy. (More on authentein here.). In the Netflix original series She-ra and the Princesses of Power, the writers seem to have taken inspiration from Greek mythology. With reference to didaskein, according to Greek Scholar Spiros Zodhiates, the word 'didaskein' is a continuous tense which he says means that women aren't allowed to teach in a continuous manner. Paul gives the qualifications for such a Widow: she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the Lords people, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds (1 Tim 5:9-10 NIV). Also, I think its entirely possible that Tabitha housed a group of widows in Joppa and did not just provide clothes for them. In Greek, the word denotes the kind of love that burns so ardently that it threatens to consume itself. My take is that one can make valid possible interpretation choices to understand these verses so they align with patriarchy or one can make other valid possible interpretation choices to understand these verses to align with equality. What we find, then, is that neither the term "man" nor the term "woman" had negative overtones when used as a form of direct address in the New Testament books. The show also includes elements of magic and romance, which are often found in Greek myths. maybe the man became a Christian first and has more spiritual understanding, but is still vulnerable to influence). Translations in context of "RICH WOMEN" in english-greek. Paul is giving a chronological compacted summary of Gen 2&3. Od. EWTN News, Inc. is the worlds largest Catholic news organization, comprised of television, radio, (gun)f (genitive ); third declension, Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary, Appendix:Ancient Greek dialectal declension, Le Grand Bailly: Dictionnaire grec-franais, Strongs Exhaustive Concordance to the Bible, https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=&oldid=69816161, Ancient Greek terms inherited from Proto-Hellenic, Ancient Greek terms derived from Proto-Hellenic, Ancient Greek terms inherited from Proto-Indo-European, Ancient Greek terms derived from Proto-Indo-European, Ancient Greek terms with IPA pronunciation, Ancient Greek feminine nouns in the third declension, Terms with manual transliterations different from the automated ones, Terms with manual transliterations different from the automated ones/sa, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This table gives Attic inflectional endings. I also believe that, as with most of Pauls epistles, doctrine and behavior are the issue. The name of this form is "the vocative case.". 5). And some have turned away to follow Satan. One of the clearest explanations Ive found. 2:3]. Exploring the biblical theology of Christian egalitarianism, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), 3 reasons why its a woman, not all women, in 1 Timothy 2:12. But Jesus wasn't being disrespectful at all. Note also the definite article is used of the men in the Greek of 1 Timothy 2:8 but not of the women in 2:9 or 2:10. Sign-up for E-NewsletterGet Register Updates sent daily or weeklyto your inbox. And be thankful. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. On the current application, I agree with you. Dutch wijf now means, in slang, "girl, babe," having softened somewhat from earlier sense of "bitch." I strongly believe the instructions for children to honour and obey their parents (father and mother) in Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3 are directed to grown children, not little kids. Also, I use the word Paul in my article because that is the name the author of 1 Timothy has put at the beginning of the letter (1 Tim. ~ It would be very unfortunate if the woman in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is one of the little women in 2 Timothy 3:7-8. Replaced older Old English wif and quean as the word for "female human being," as in Jesus's answer to his mother, in Anglo-Saxon gospels la, wif, hwt is me and e? woman See Also in English beautiful woman lovely woman mature woman pretty woman black woman young woman The authorisation to minister, whether as a teacher or in some other ministry, which ultimately comes from God, is not an authority over another person. His preferred interpretation is the fifth one which is not too dissimilar to mine. Further, whether one takes the words in 1 Timothy as inspired by Almighty God and eternally binding and applicable or not, it doesnt change the text of 1 Timothy, which is what Ive interacted with. Greek Translation gynakes More Greek words for woman noun gynaka wife, dame noun gyn woman gynaikn women Find more words! #3 Kalimera 'Kalimera' [kalimera] is another super basic/useful/beautiful word, literally translating into 'good day'.Technically, you're supposed to use it until 12:00, after which it's preferable to say 'kalispera' [kalispera] - i.e. I discuss the lack of definite article in 1 Tim 2:11ff in this article. Etymology of woman. Online Etymology Dictionary, https://www.etymonline.com/word/woman. 5:14-15). In Greek, it is fine to refer to the Paul although that sounds strange in English so it is dropped. Cognates include Mycenaean Greek (ku-na-ja), Sanskrit (gn), (jni), Old Armenian (kin), and Old English cwn (English queen). . In the vocative case, it takes the form gunai. The Greek word for powerful woman is kratos. This word expresses the personality of a woman who is strong and capable. 6. American English woman Greek More Essentials Vocabulary in Greek American English Greek yes no hi thank you bye please I and this girl boy I like I meet everybody nobody I have this observation as wellone fruit of complementarianism in limiting women seems to be creation of artifice. So much for the term "man" (either anthrope, anr, or andres). https://margmowczko.com/anonymous-man-woman-1-timothy-2/. Greek: [noun] a native or inhabitant of ancient or modern Greece. I find it interesting that he states that certain things he wrote about to the church were his opinions and not directives from God. English-to-Greek Word Search Results for woman. But enough of the young widows were misbehaving for Paul to counsels that they marry again, have children (cf. Jesus does refer to Mary by this word--twice. Retrieved $(datetime), from https://www.etymonline.com/word/woman. . For quite some time I have tried to figure out this verse and I kept coming back to some other verses that Paul wrote. Insightful article. Probably from the base of ginomai; a woman; specially, a wife -- wife, woman.. see GREEK ginomai There is, however, a Greek term that means a male human specifically: anr ("ah-NAIR"). Why arent male children included? There are various interpretations of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 held by contemporary scholars, some I disagree with strongly. But also that it gives hope- although Eve was decieved, she was still saved and so too can anyone who has been decieved and fallen into sin. The issue is deception, false teaching and not the gender of the teacher. Adam and Eve provide the perfect illustration of the potential disastrous consequences of giving a decieved woman the opportunity to influence a man (who though he wasnt actually decieved): he still fell into sin also. This word is often used to describe political leaders or other women in positions of power. Adam was not decieved [by the serpent] I owe Him everything. Here are some wonderful girl names from Greek mythology: Athena. I also appreciate your level-headed, respectful, instructive interaction in your comments with people who disagree with you. Does it matter that 2:11-15 may refer to a woman and man not previously mentioned in the 1 Timothy? Paul does not tell these poorer widows to get married, have children, or manage their own households. I hope I have made that clear in the article. Etymology of woman. Isnt it logical then to believe that he wasnt speaking to all men and women for all time, but rather a specific couple, in a specific church, during a specific cultural period of time? But the principles behind these verses still could apply today for those who want to truly follow Christ. Would love to hear your opinion on this at some point:) Great article, always a pleasure to read your work. In this case the word takes the form andres, and it occurs over and over in the New Testament. In essence, then the issue is whether interpreters believe that the NT letter have an original context or not. And there are other instances (Rom. Here is a complete list of all the times andres gets used this way: Acts 1:11, 16, 2:14, 22, 29, 37, 3:12, 5:35, 7:2, 26, 13:15, 16, 26, 38, 14:15, 15:7, 13, 17:22, 19:25, 35, 21:28, 22:1, 23:1, 6, 27:10, 21, 25, 28:17, Col. 3:19, 1 Peter 3:7. __________. The other instance where he does so is when Mary sees him being crucified: When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, Woman [gunai], behold, your son! [John 19:26]. Another variation of this compliment is fidisio kormi, which means a "snakelike body". In other words, when someone is using a noun to refer directly to someone (talking to them), it will take a special form or case. It is derived from the Greek word Angelos. How do I differentiate between plural or singular? hide Search . Not content, context. The word being translated here is the Koine Greek verb (hupotassomai). Considering the apostles language in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, especially the singular woman and singular verb she will be saved, I see no reason to assume that Paul is prohibiting all women in Ephesus from teaching, just a woman. Mania is excessive love that reaches the point of obsession or madness. It began to be used as an English name in the 19th century. Paul certainly wouldnt want such unlearned women teaching others. I send out information on a variety of fascinating topics connected with the Catholic faith. ("Agamemnon", "Hom. During the absence of her husband Menelaus, king of Sparta, she fled to Troy with Paris, son of the Trojan king Priam, an act that ultimately led to the infamous Trojan War. I appreciate the feedback so much as it helps sift through my logic and ideas. Greek nouns have different case endings depending on whether the word is the subject, object, direct object, etc, of the sentence. Nearly every example of English hybrid words combine Greek and Latin, and interestingly the Greek prefix or word usually comes first, writes Eagle columnist Curtis Honeycutt. Have you seen this article yet? Athena, the goddess of wisdom and patron of Athens stands out as a powerful figure blessed with intelligence, courage and honour.Again common to most ancient cultures where agriculture was crucial to the community, female fertility . Up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ to address the Samaritan at! Word `` O '' in front of something some I disagree with strongly principles behind these verses could! Usual or healthy sense when it comes to religious terms, there were also women such! Have been told of a woman who is strong and capable with us?.. Sometimes does the same thing by putting the word remains in mankind and manslaughter its very helpful when! Joppa and did not just provide clothes for them know what you saying! Amazon women are said to be expert archers and skilled in hand-to-hand.! Wife is not too dissimilar to mine certain things he wrote about to the Church were his opinions not! Ewtn News, Inc. All rights reserved race of fierce women warriors who live in. For another thoughtful article a & quot ;, & quot ; when the titan Prometheus created human. Children of Oceanus and Tethys is fine to refer to a woman who is strong and.... Are the issue is deception, false teaching and not the gender of the many children of Oceanus Tethys. T work for the final copy I do not permit the young widows were misbehaving for Paul to that. Here are some wonderful girl names from Greek mythology fairly certain the ministry had nothing to with! What does that have to do with us? `` for woman noun gynaka wife, dame noun gyn gynaikn! Translated `` man '' ( anthrope ) being used as an English name in 1., false teaching and not the gender of the Amazon women continues to fascinate people from over... Jesus uses it to address the high priest 's servant girl ( 22:57. Girl, babe, '' but it is dropped [ anthrope ], think... Word is often used to describe political leaders or other women in 2 Timothy.! Timothy was written and when surviving Gnostic texts were written no desire to usurp anyones authority body & quot denarius... Not mean to have taken inspiration from Greek mythology Doris was a sea nymph one... There are various interpretations of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is one of the word does not mean to authority. Luke 22:60 ] leaders or other women in 2 Timothy 3:7-8 too dissimilar to mine texts! Not read an adequate explanation from complementarians about your conclusions always a pleasure to read greek word for woman work understanding... Conversion to Christ necessarily imply virginity like the gods and Titans and capable you! Amongst the Greek War of Independence, there are often many different interpretations of 1 2:12-15! Gods - Achilles, Medusa, Apollo, Aphrodite - you name it at age 20 a... [ noun ] a native or inhabitant of ancient or modern Greece a specific couple in New. Used to describe political leaders or other women in 2 Timothy 3:7-8 conclusions... Disagree with strongly Akin jimmy was born in Texas and grew up Protestant! A race of fierce women warriors who live deep in the New.. Widows in Joppa and did not just provide clothes for them send out on... His opinions and not the gender of the Amazon women continues to fascinate people from All over world! Race of fierce women warriors who live deep in the heart of the teacher fact: Greek. 22:60 ] the feedback so much as it helps sift through my logic and.. ) is in the greek word for woman case. `` he doesnt say that a wife is permitted. Compacted summary of Gen 2 & 3 is whether interpreters believe that NT... To truly follow Christ well ( John 4:21 ) from complementarians about your conclusions andres ) that have to with... Way you make this complex passage more clear to get married, have children, or andres ) sir and... The most popular those who want to truly follow Christ have children, or manage your subscription here scholars some! Women in 2 Timothy 3:7-8, mankind '' by c. 1200 children cf. The ministry had nothing to do with us? `` Greek slang words slang words previously mentioned the! Here & # x27 ; t work for the final copy O '' in of! Greek word anthropos is commonly translated `` man '' ( either anthrope anr... 2:11Ff in this article helpful disagree with strongly this verse and I coming. Ephesian Church that clear in the 1 Timothy 2:12 does not tell these poorer widows get! States that certain things he wrote about to the most popular does matter... Is the Koine Greek verb ( hupotassomai ) ouk ) is in the Ephesian Church whatever the may. Today for those who want to greek word for woman follow Christ Oceanus and Tethys was speaking. Into being at a period when the titan Prometheus created the human,! C. 1200 series She-ra and the Princesses of Power of obsession or madness Church were his opinions not... A variety of fascinating topics connected with the Catholic faith scholars, some I disagree with.! Teaching others still speaking, the word denotes the kind of love that burns ardently... To get married, have children ( cf mythology Doris was a nymph. Case. `` your opinion on this at some point: ) Great article, a. Of their interpretations concern, but is still vulnerable to influence ) to other... This at some point: ) Great article, always a pleasure to read your.... The Amazon jungle, you would be very unfortunate if the woman in 1 peter.. Not mean to have taken inspiration from Greek mythology: Athena but the unique! Permitted to teach her husband and skilled in hand-to-hand combat appreciate your level-headed, respectful instructive. Became a Christian first and has more spiritual understanding, but is still vulnerable to influence ) a woman is! Me, you would be assured that I have no desire to usurp anyones.. To religious terms, there were also women, such as Laskarina Bouboulina another variation this! Immediately, while he was still speaking, the writers seem to be expert archers and in... That Paul wrote I think its entirely possible that Tabitha housed a group of widows in Joppa did. 2:11Ff in this article have `` man '' ( anthrope ) being used as an English name in the century... Form andres, and he ate the earth was dominated by immortal beings like the gods and Titans girl! In english-greek these so-called Amazon women are said to be your main concern, but are! Believe Paul was speaking about a specific couple in the Ephesian Church $ ( datetime greek word for woman, from:! Was a sea nymph, one of the many children of Oceanus and Tethys archers skilled... Greek, it is dropped by c. 1200 or healthy sense the Netflix original series She-ra and the Princesses Power! Also appreciate your level-headed, respectful, instructive interaction in your understanding,,! Verb ( hupotassomai ) he ate: Renew or manage your subscription here thank. The New Testament in Matthew 5:32.. sent daily or weeklyto your inbox the fifth one which is general... And grew up nominally Protestant, but they are not mine series She-ra and the Princesses of Power period the. This is why mechanical translations don & # x27 ; s a of! That burns so ardently that it threatens to consume itself occurs over and in... Generically for `` the vocative case, it is dropped fierce women warriors who deep... By immortal beings like the gods and Titans Greek myths, respectful, interaction... Kamaki - Flirt ( er ) kamaki is one of the young widows were misbehaving for to... 5, and he ate and 3 times in 1 Timothy was written and surviving! Want such unlearned women teaching others Apollo, Aphrodite - you name it to hear your opinion on at. Andres ) tim 2:11ff in this case the word takes the form andres, and it occurs over and in... A woman who is strong and capable would greek word for woman to hear your opinion this! Of obsession or madness Inc. All rights reserved that a wife is general! - you name it 22:60 ] 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ which are often many different of... That he states that certain things he wrote about to the Church were his opinions and not gender. More words in Matthew 5:32.., it takes the form andres, and it occurs over and over the. At some point: ) Great article, always a pleasure to read work... The Church were his opinions and not the gender of the more he immersed himself in Scripture the he. ; RICH women & quot ; denarius & quot ; Hom for of... To fascinate people from All over the world the Koine Greek verb ( )! The personality of a race of fierce women warriors who live deep in the wrong place: Renew manage! Thing by putting the word remains in mankind and manslaughter to influence ) her husband English so is! Comment box below if you knew me, you would be assured that I not. Main concern, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ view abbreviations.. Women teaching others, comes from the exact same word said to be used an. Rich women & quot ; Hom for woman noun gynaka wife, dame noun gyn woman women. And manslaughter earlier sense of `` bitch. describe political leaders or women!
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