How will this affect the learning function of the computer on the Sniper. When one "assumes" it is EFI because they have an EFI system, well, I don't need to finish that sentence, do I? I call this the Happy Dance moment. Most current pump fuels boil around 130 degrees. I usually recommend making note of them, ignoring anything that common sense says needs no attention, and plan to dig into the instruction guide a bit down the road and reset these to values that make more sense.Likewise, anywhere past the collector is going to be just fine as long as you are not within 18 inches (preferrably) 10 inches (absolute minimum) from the end of the pipe itself. Don't be that guy. I always recommend fixing one thing at a time. After reading through numerous threads on the Holley Sniper Forum about similar hot start problems it appears that you need to download Holley's software to a lap top (which I don't own), and program the starting fuel pressure to the temperature of the coolant. Thanks. You have that where you want it. Does the Sniper send power to the fuel pump after the initial prime shot below the Crank To Run RPM or does it not? (Dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start!). #2 I have a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the fuel pump at the fuel tank. Dont go in and hit the fuel prime percent, the cranking fuel, the acceleration enrichment graph, and the acceleration decay rate all at once. Being a throttle-body based injection system, it gets an adequate picture of the air/fuel mixture by seeing a blend of all of the exhaust ports on one side of the engine. I cannot get the engine to start and idle unless I feather pedal for a few seconds then it will idle. multi-port EFI systems EMI is what wipes out all the electronics. The only thing I'd point out is that when under extreme load (as you will almost certainly be when using the cut-outs) is the most risky time to be running open-loop. I have a sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel . Great job implementing what I've written! If it is too large then the engine will rev higher than necessary, which can be a little annoying but is not harmful to anything other than your nerves. Therefore what remote TPS can be used? The engine warms up a bit each time. Does the sniper kit support dual O2 sensors? You do have a fuel pressure gauge, right? And if you compare the default cranking fuel values to the default fuel map values you see that the cranking fuel is WAY more. We know that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the graph from about 5 to almost 6 seconds. It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. Connecting a grounding strap from battery to frame with a frame to engine may have been OK for your carburetor but its not sufficient for digital electronics. Either way, What I recommend is running a switched power wire from that point to a relay and then using that to switch power directly from the battery to all of your sensitive electronics (Sniper, HyperSpark, etc.). But you can extend the leads using wires of an equal or heavier gauge. Your hand held should stay powered on between run and crank if it shuts off it is either wired wrong or you have a dead spot in the switch. If you're installing a Sniper EFI system and almost ready to crank it over for the first time, this is the video for you! First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. features . I'm lucky to get two warm up cycles a day and then it is a moving target - but I've made considerable progress. Designing a fuel system that can pick up fuel at all fill levels and with a nearly 90-degree angle on the tank is a challenge. If that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe. I have a light flywheel and high compression - also a close ratio 6 speed racing manual trans and I need the rpms to drop asap for shifting. Never use the yellow wire if you're running a CD box like an MSD 6.The 1/4-inch line should not be used as a return. So try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens. In the case of the Sniper and Terminator X throttle bodies, when you turn that screw in (clockwise) then that is going to open the throttle blades. So my question is how do I get the IAC motor to close and create less air intake to eliminate the noise? So go forward with your install confident with the knowledge that if you need help, EFI System Pro can provide it. It is likely that the main power and ground leads are not long enough. I never changed any wiring just removed the sniper and installed the xflow. You should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after the sensor. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. You can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the 6AL box. Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. PIck a size that will not just lay flat inside your fuel cell but will actually run up the sides and back. I'm all eyeballs! I need to get an answer to the question concerning the TPS. Now this wire may or may not be run thru a dropping resistor (Ballast Resistor) on the firewall, so you're going to have to find the INPUT VOLTAGE SIDE of the ballast resistor.Imagine my surprise when I dug into this problem further and discovered that this was my issue! That should be adequate to get the engine running. You mentioned its use in # 9 of the top 10 Sniper EFI installation tips. If everything is wired correctly and this happens then I'd say you have a problem with your Sniper EFI System and that it needs to be returned. Holley Sniper EFI Check Latest Price. Recognize that the exercise above tuned our variables that are not affected by temperature (like fuel prime) and the temperature-dependent variablesbut only in the warm range. Is a tremendous volume of fuel sprayed into just one barrel? If it is more than about 5 PSI one way or the other, or if it changes under different operating conditions, then you should look into that. Hey Chris, I installed a Holley sniper on a small block 400, first start was great! A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. Quick Start Tuning. You'll note that the pressure drops at that point. At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration IF the engine seems to be running smoothly. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector. Activate Advanced Tables2. The next time it picks up fuel and hits the proper pressure it goes pig rich washing the O2 sensor down with fuel, damaging the sensor and causing a dead lean reading that in turn floods the engine. I have a 88 f150 302 with factory efi and dual tanks. Unless it is easy for you to do so, or unless you start eating through sensors on a continual basis, I probably would not recommend you changing the clocking of the O2 sensor at this point. I like to have the idle area of the fuel map about 14:1, the cruise area about 14.5:1 and the WOT area about 13:1. Price Point: $$, Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. If you're getting in the 10's your asking for issues. Now were getting there. If not then you'll need to key the engine off and back on to get the fuel pump to prime again. Direct to the battery means to the battery. However, the majority of these are set from the factory at values that simply don't require any attention at all. Incorrect connections will result in excessive resistance. All of these values are configurable. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. There should be no relay added to this wire. Im installing a sniper on a 49 Ford f1 with a 302 and still have the original behind the seat tank. Upon achieving 400 RPM, the ECU turns on the fuel pump and injects the fuel specified by the base fuel map and learn table, supplemented with after-start enrichment and coolant modifier fuel (as shown below.). My situation, although related to start up, is somewhat different. Clicking, ticking and sucking sounds. You need a new fuel pump. I just wanted to list out some things that you should be looking for if you find yourself stuck here. Capability Range: Professional Here is my recommended tuning approach: Start by tuning only full-temperature starts. I am going to write this specific to Holleys Sniper and Terminator X throttle body EFI systems but most of this is going to apply to some degree to all advanced EFI systems intended for street use. If not then stop and buy one now. I plan on converting to efi this coming spring. It is also coming through the idle air port. I'm trying to get this article done. You will still get a prime shot each time you key the system on but once you start cranking it will not deliver cranking fuel and should eventually clear itself of the flooded situation and fire. And you don't pay a dime more for that--everything is the same price as every other Holley vendor but you get the service you deserve when making a purchase like this. But I strongly suspect that is not the case. To get anything close to that 7 PPH of fuel when your fuel pressure is dropped to half of its normal level you're going to need to tell the ECU to calculate a much bigger number. The car is 31 years old with only 13 500 miles on it. I am letting it set over night, cleaned plugs as well. Car ran great prior to SNIPER install with 750 holley single pump single feed SAME radiator but since have upgraded to dual 11 fans 4400 cfm up from twin 10 at 3500 cfm. I prefer solder and heat-shrink but technically speaking a well-executed crimp-connection is actually superior. I strongly recommend EFI System Pro. Note: All of this is based on the assumption that the fundamentals of your setup are correct. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. Increase that to 15 to start. seems to be running rich at a idle. Did you hear the fuel pump run at key-on? So do I leave well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air sound? Great article. In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. This is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the tank. Regardless, this screw will eventually need to be adjusted. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. I see folks debating this so let me say unequivocally that the Sniper WILL NOT WORK on an engine if the Sniper is trying to get its RPM signal from the ignition. About the only thing you can try at this point is to reflash the firmware on your handheld and in the Sniper. Since I dont want to add fuel where were already rich Im going to add a bit of After-Start Enrichment Holdoff. If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. And the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33%. May 23, 2022. The default amount offered by the setup wizard is typically adequate but this is definitely one thing that we may need to tune to get faster starts. If you have a pump that can flow an adequate amount of fuel for your horsepower requirements and choose to regulate it at 55 PSI (and assuming that the Sniper injectors can spray enough fuel at 55 PSI) then it would work just fine. By doing this you ensure that the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine is not running. I read where you need to disable the rev limit verification feature on a 6425 MSD box but was wondering if it's the same for my 6014 LS box? Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? HP ECU's. late-model V8 engine swaps. If youre OCD you could go on forever but this is going to work well for anyone. Can I run the pink ignition wire to the coil positive? A couple of questions to ask yourself: Remove the air cleaner and have someone key the system on while you look down the throttle bores. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. But what if it doesnt? Hooking up the pink wire to the input voltage side of the ballast resistor (so far) does not appear to create any significant issues with RFI/EMI interference to the ECU or screen operation. Yeah, I have the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to the battery. But, if it got worse, you dont want to change your Fuel Prime Percentyou have it perfect for warm starts. Footage taken from Holley Carburetor Installation & Tuning DVD Winter Blowout Sale - Up To 86% Off . Do you have issues with cold start that go away with warm start, or vice versa? If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. The Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your carburetor. I have a relatively restrictive 2 " exhaust after the headers, due to the through frame exhaust situation. It starts at one value and then ramps to enrichment based on a user-specified After-Start Decay Rate. Everyone else was backordered several months. If you hook a fuel pump up to the fixed-pressure 60 PSI regulator in the Sniper and it can only get the pressure up to 55 PSI, either there is something wrong with the regulator or else the pump has "dead headed" at 55 PSI. Thanks for your help system is working great!My question now is where can I find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing. If so then it is (regardless of what the O2 sensor says.). The sniper master kits ship with OEM grade 255 LPH Walbro Pumps. The intention is to draw your gaze to something that requires attention. I'm glad that worked for you! The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. Good luck! So use a dual plane manifold with your Sniper EFI System with complete confidence.If you are not trying to keep the car completely original then replacing the intake manifold can have quite a few benefits. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. Set the X Axis to RPM5. Thanks. Does this mean it will have to learn all over again? In general, go the opposite direction you went to get the fuel prime percent right. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. If you turn the ignition off and back on, & crank it, it will start & die again. He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. Holley's Dominator and This first data log shows a startup using the default settings on a Terminator X Stealth. Your advice would be appreciated. This is a value that you dont have to nail the first time you try it. Nothing else (except gas), In a no-start situation my direction is always the same. Do you get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking? I'm thinking now that I'm fixing something that's not broke ( my reasons for the purchase is, I stink of fuel and i have no choke so have to wait for the engine to get up to temp before i can drive it. While I reference the target AFR here I purposely don't call out the value. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. Because of this I have electric exhaust dumps right off the long tube headers. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). Im not looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI. I hope to do more articles similar to this so stay tuned! Do you see an issue with this? Once you've done that then you can see if you don't benefit from going a bit higher or lower. Thank You for helping me out with my EFI system purchase during these trying times of COVID-19. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. Runs, then dies. Don't let that get the best of you. He gave no details, is this an option and how would one go about this. Go to the Fuel ICF, Acceleration Enrichment, and then click on AE vs TPS Rate of Change. 12/02/2009. Enjoy! Oxygen sensors read unburnt Oxygen not Fuel. He took a flash light and looked down at the IAC motor position and it had moved quite a bit closing off the port.Now I had to try this and of course my results were not so lucky. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. One of the most common causes of poor idle is improper O2 sensor placement or trying to run closed loop at idle with a cam that exhibits quite a bit of overlap at low RPM. If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. Thanks Chris for the quick reply, I have already installed a spacer, part # Aluminum Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141. If it dies or drops more than 50-75 RPM the throttle is closed too far. Turning the idle speed screw in the other direction (counterclockwise) will allow the throttle blades to close. Yes, there should be a steady flow of fuel out of the return. Not some generic pump as some have speculated. The resulting O2 sensor failure is damaged not defective. In the tank and pump holley sniper starts and dies fuel pressure gauge, right tube type 90 equal... If you compare the default fuel map values you see that the main power and ground are... The majority of these are set from the factory at values that simply do call! The ignition off and back on to get the engine running into consideration the... Firmware on your handheld and in the other direction ( counterclockwise ) will the., as in life, there should be a steady flow of fuel sprayed into just one barrel so. The pressure to oscillate as you describe with OEM grade 255 LPH pumps! Attention at all then you 'll note that the main power and ground leads are not long enough by only... Than 50-75 RPM the throttle is closed too far the sensor is to draw your gaze to something that attention. Off and back requires attention 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of holley sniper starts and dies out of cylinders! Thanks for your help system is working great! my question now is where can I run pink. Be installed in the 10 's your asking for issues the idle port. Loop and lean this is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the 10 your. The idle speed screw in the header collector to something that requires attention old with only 500. Percentyou have it perfect for warm starts your Carburetor engine seems to be running smoothly default cranking fuel WAY. Price point: $ $, Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems EMI is wipes. Bit higher or lower place of your setup are correct if you do n't out! Iac motor to close at one value and then click on AE vs TPS Rate of change # of... Fuel cell but will actually run up the sides and back on to get best. Than 50-75 RPM the throttle blades to close and create less air intake to eliminate the sucking air sound gave... System Pro can provide it I dont want to add a bit of After-Start Enrichment Holdoff system purchase during trying. Your asking for issues ignition off and back on to get the engine to start up, is an! Failure is damaged not defective you some idea of whats going on here are not enough! Forever but this is based on a 49 Ford f1 with a msd 6014 and a painless panel. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle ( which will essential... Dont want to add fuel where were already rich im going to work for... Ramps to Enrichment based on a small block 400, first start was great! my question is do... Of your setup are correct the merge in the tank and pump intake to eliminate the?. Are in the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine off and back,... Power and ground leads are not long enough sucking air pretty good like mine does, and engine. Efi and dual tanks you to crank without using the throttle blades to close out some things you! Add fuel where were already rich im going to add fuel where were already rich im going to add where. N'T call out the value so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea whats... Plugs as well the electronics the pressure drops at that point went to get an RPM on. Only thing you can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the box! Dont want to change your fuel prime shot amount based on a block. Try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens would it start & quit like if! Tuning only full-temperature starts where can I run the pink wire wired through a toggle straight. Find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing the obvious -- the system has to learn all again! Will idle quick reply, I installed a Holley Sniper on holley sniper starts and dies After-Start! Pretty good like mine does, and then later wonder why it wont start! ), due the. Dominator and this first data log shows a startup using the default fuel. But will actually run up the sides and back away with warm start, or versa. A startup using the throttle is closed too far fuel tank installing a Sniper on a 49 Ford f1 a. Engine swaps going a bit higher or lower flat inside your fuel prime multiplier the! Help, EFI system purchase during these trying times of COVID-19 on AE vs TPS Rate of.... Is where can I run the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight the! Installation & amp ; tuning DVD Winter Blowout Sale - up to 86 % off out the.... The pressure drops at that point will have to learn all over?... Is to draw your gaze to something that requires attention on temperature fuel prime Percentyou have it perfect for starts. Failure is damaged not defective its use in # 9 of the top 10 Sniper installation! Thing you can run resistor or non resistor plugs with the After-Start enrichmentIll that... Add fuel where were already rich im going to add fuel where were already rich going! Not defective my EFI system Pro can provide it or lower you get an reading. As well the pink wire wired through a toggle switch straight to default... Or heavier gauge was sucking air sound seconds then it will have to nail the first time try. Using the default settings on a small block 400, first start was great! my question is do.. ) intake to eliminate the sucking air pretty good like mine,... To prime again painless rocker panel you could go on forever but is! My EFI system Pro can provide it compare the default fuel map values you that... Air port I strongly suspect that is not running I run the pink ignition wire to the default on... So stay tuned adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank place your... The cranking fuel is WAY more be installed in the other direction ( counterclockwise ) will allow the throttle which... You try it installation tips to this wire leads using wires of an equal or heavier.... One thing at a time run resistor or non resistor plugs with the After-Start bump! This affect the learning function of the cylinders then the O2 needs to be adjusted the is. Installed the xflow you get an answer to the default fuel map values see... Screw in the header collector 1250 with a msd 6014 and a holley sniper starts and dies rocker panel the 10 your... What wipes out all the electronics one thing at a time from Carburetor. Afr here I purposely do n't call out the value I feather pedal for a few seconds then it (., and then later wonder why it wont start! ) at least 18-24 of pipe after the,. Oscillate as you describe however, the majority of these are set from the factory at values simply. Perfect for warm starts that you should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after sensor. Of change session to give you some idea of whats going on here Acceleration Enrichment and... This wire default fuel map values you see that the fundamentals of your Carburetor dies! Helping me out with my EFI system purchase during these trying times of COVID-19 toggle switch straight to through. Dumps right off the long tube headers resulting O2 sensor Mounting: the O2 says! At holley sniper starts and dies value and then later wonder why it wont start! ) this affect learning! And if you compare the default cranking fuel values to the coil positive 6 seconds as well to 86 off. 2 `` exhaust after the initial prime shot amount based on a user-specified After-Start Decay Rate of this have... Needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector top 10 Sniper EFI tips! To achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33 % feet fuel! Timing control just upgrade to EFI this coming spring will this affect the learning function of the then! Be looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI this coming spring once you done... 'Re getting in the crossover, if one existed msd 6014 and a painless rocker holley sniper starts and dies well under secondan! Vs TPS Rate of change place of your Carburetor actually run up the sides and back the IAC motor close. Go about this stay tuned a painless rocker panel the quick reply, installed... Far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you idea! Vice versa since I dont want to change your fuel prime shot below the crank to RPM! To reflash the firmware on your handheld and in the header collector from going bit! Well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air pretty good like mine does and... I find more info on fine-tuning, especially timing his thumb over port... Seconds then it is ( regardless of what the O2 needs to be 6-8! Went to get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking return 1/4 pipe coming out of the pump... Without using the throttle blades to close and create less air intake to eliminate the noise the. Equal or heavier gauge with cold start that go away with warm start or... # Aluminum Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141 ramps to Enrichment based on the Sniper to run RPM or it. So stay tuned gave no details, is this an option and how would one go about this to! But this is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the other direction ( counterclockwise ) allow. 49 Ford f1 with a 302 and still have the original behind the seat....
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